I live in Ottawa, Canada and this is my first winter as a PA-28-140 owner.
My airplane does have copper battery cables (cable ?) and an engine heater
but the previous owner warned me; in really cold weather, below (-10C/-23 F)
it won't start without a battery boost. The battery boost is in addition to
plug-in the aircraft for about an hour before departure. The aircraft
doesn't have an engine cover AND it does not have a geared starter.

Are there any other PA-28-140s with a similar problem?

I will be getting an engine cover, but I don't think this alone will
eliminate the battery boost requirements. The battery is two years old.
Normal summer start always looks like the battery is dead, i.e. one blade
goes by and the prop stops turning, ignition back to off, then crank again
and it fires up immediately.

My plan this winter is to get a trickle charger for the battery, blanket
battery warmer plus regular plug-in of the engine heater.

Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Jose Vivanco

C-GPYH.

You may want to have your charging system tested to make sure everything is
in order. If it cranks like that when it is warm then it is marginal at
best in the cold weather. The battery can also be load tested. Fix or
replace anything that is marginal and your frustration level will be much
lower over the winter.


"Jose Vivanco" > wrote in message
...
>
> I live in Ottawa, Canada and this is my first winter as a PA-28-140 owner.
> My airplane does have copper battery cables (cable ?) and an engine heater
> but the previous owner warned me; in really cold weather, below (-10C/-23
F)
> it won't start without a battery boost. The battery boost is in addition
to
> plug-in the aircraft for about an hour before departure. The aircraft
> doesn't have an engine cover AND it does not have a geared starter.
>
> Are there any other PA-28-140s with a similar problem?
>
> I will be getting an engine cover, but I don't think this alone will
> eliminate the battery boost requirements. The battery is two years old.
> Normal summer start always looks like the battery is dead, i.e. one blade
> goes by and the prop stops turning, ignition back to off, then crank again
> and it fires up immediately.
>
> My plan this winter is to get a trickle charger for the battery, blanket
> battery warmer plus regular plug-in of the engine heater.
>
> Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Jose Vivanco
>
> C-GPYH.
>
>
>
>
>

>below (-10C/-23 F)

heat the airplane? forget it! It's too cold for ME!

In article >,
Jose Vivanco > wrote:
>
>I will be getting an engine cover, but I don't think this alone will
>eliminate the battery boost requirements.

Especially if the battery isn't in the engine compartment. Is the
Cherokee battery in the empennage?

>Normal summer start always looks like the battery is dead, i.e. one blade
>goes by and the prop stops turning, ignition back to off, then crank again
>and it fires up immediately.

I flew a 182 like that and the standard procedure was to pull the prop
through about 4 blades during the preflight or else you'd have to 'rock'
it to start (like you describe). Not sure why pulling it through would
help.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

Cover the engine compartment with a thick blanket to keep the heat inside.

Consider changing to a synthetic or semi-synthetic oil if the engine specs
allow it. They make a big difference to the cranking power needed in cold
weather.

Also, getting the plane out of and into the hangar can be tricky when it's
icy. Frozen hangar doors may be hard to open. I've had to resort to all
sorts of tricks when moving our club motorglider in winter without
assistants, including spiked boots and a block and tackle system to pull the
plane over the ice threshold forming at the hangar doors.

But it's great to fly in winter when weather is good.

Nils
Helsinki, Finland


"Jose Vivanco" wrote in message ...
>
< >
> Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

My 140 has required the initial "bump" you describe for the last ten
years I owned it. Our positive braided battery strap has always been in
marginal shape. I will probably replace it this fall. It is split at the
battery post and does not offer the best connection.

What is that hardened putty-like stuff that insulates it from the
battery box? That looks like a really crude solution. Do they make some
sort of (legal) rubber isolator as a replacement, or do I have to
replace it with the same goop?

By the way, I have had ours out in -13 and the oil temp is pretty low,
even with the plate on. No battery boost was needed, even with the aging
cable. With thermal underwear it was still too cool for my tastes. The
heater does not keep the plane at any comfort level below 0F. Here in
Illinois, +10-+15F is about the reasonable limit on a tiedown.
Fortunately, daytime temps don't go lower than that very often.

I see what the other respondent was saying about the hangar woes. Here,
they plow in front of the hangars and leave a nice 10-15 inch bump of
snow that turns to solid ice when the sun bounces off the hangars and
partially melts it during the day and it solidifies at night.

Mike

Jose Vivanco wrote:
> I live in Ottawa, Canada and this is my first winter as a PA-28-140 owner.
> My airplane does have copper battery cables (cable ?) and an engine heater
> but the previous owner warned me; in really cold weather, below (-10C/-23 F)
> it won't start without a battery boost. The battery boost is in addition to
> plug-in the aircraft for about an hour before departure. The aircraft
> doesn't have an engine cover AND it does not have a geared starter.
>
> Are there any other PA-28-140s with a similar problem?
>
> I will be getting an engine cover, but I don't think this alone will
> eliminate the battery boost requirements. The battery is two years old.
> Normal summer start always looks like the battery is dead, i.e. one blade
> goes by and the prop stops turning, ignition back to off, then crank again
> and it fires up immediately.
>
> My plan this winter is to get a trickle charger for the battery, blanket
> battery warmer plus regular plug-in of the engine heater.
>
> Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Jose Vivanco
>
> C-GPYH.
>
>
>
>
>


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> By the way, I have had ours out in -13 and the oil temp is pretty low,
> even with the plate on. No battery boost was needed, even with the aging
> cable. With thermal underwear it was still too cool for my tastes.

Is that -13 F? If so, I've flown at that temperature, and it's quite
amazing. Everything creaks, and groans, and sounds different.
Pre-flighting is an exercise in endurance, and your eyes water so badly you
can't see a danged thing.

Once everything is warmed up, however, the performance is spectacular!

> The heater does not keep the plane at any comfort level below 0F.

Mike, I'd check to make sure the passenger compartment is relatively
airtight. When we flew our Warrior at that temperature (I've not had the
opportunity with the Pathfinder, yet), we were toasty warm in just a few
minutes. That Cherokee heater kicks out a lot of BTUs, and should do the
job, even when it's that cold -- unless the heat is being sucked out through
a bad door seal. (Or under the back seat. Or due to leaky air vents.)

> I see what the other respondent was saying about the hangar woes. Here,
> they plow in front of the hangars and leave a nice 10-15 inch bump of
> snow that turns to solid ice when the sun bounces off the hangars and
> partially melts it during the day and it solidifies at night.

Ours, too. We've taken to driving to the airport immediately after a
snowstorm, just so we can clear the area in front of the hangar door. (Our
first year here we didn't know to do that, and there were days when we
literally had to use a hammer and chisel to chip away the ice, just so we
could open the door. It was frozen to the ground!)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"> Ours, too. We've taken to driving to the airport immediately after a
> snowstorm, just so we can clear the area in front of the hangar door.
(Our
> first year here we didn't know to do that, and there were days when we
> literally had to use a hammer and chisel to chip away the ice, just so we
> could open the door. It was frozen to the ground!)

Exactly. And when jumping into the plane after this workout exercise, the
body sweat promptly converts to ice on the windows ;(.

After two such experiences I started to change into a dry T-shirt and
sweater before entering the airplane. No more problems with ice on the
windows.

One final admonition regarding cold weather flying. The weather can change
pretty fast from sunny to low clouds with risk of icing. Be vigilant. I've
twice run into sleet or freezing rain before even clearing the pattern, when
the weather still looked OK on the apron.
But as I said, on a clear day winter flying is a great experience.

Nils
Helsinki, Finland

Ben Jackson wrote:

>>Normal summer start always looks like the battery is dead, i.e. one blade
>>goes by and the prop stops turning, ignition back to off, then crank again
>>and it fires up immediately.
>
>
> I flew a 182 like that and the standard procedure was to pull the prop
> through about 4 blades during the preflight or else you'd have to 'rock'
> it to start (like you describe). Not sure why pulling it through would
> help.

This is the classic case of a starter adapter going bad. Fix it soon as
you are introducing metal to the oil as the main shaft goes bad.

Newps wrote:
>
>
> Ben Jackson wrote:
>
>>> Normal summer start always looks like the battery is dead, i.e. one
>>> blade
>>> goes by and the prop stops turning, ignition back to off, then crank
>>> again
>>> and it fires up immediately.
>>
>>
>>
>> I flew a 182 like that and the standard procedure was to pull the prop
>> through about 4 blades during the preflight or else you'd have to 'rock'
>> it to start (like you describe). Not sure why pulling it through would
>> help.
>
>
> This is the classic case of a starter adapter going bad. Fix it soon as
> you are introducing metal to the oil as the main shaft goes bad.
>
I had this type of problem with both my Bonanza and my Tripacer. Each
time it was one of the field wires within the starter being disconnected
from the main post and using only one side of the field.
Either it wasn't soldered on properly or the starter got hot enough to
loosen up the joint or better yet someone decided to tighten the lock
nut on the post and turned the post and broke the connection!

It certainly seemed like a battery or charging system problem.

If it isn't turning over like crazy in the summer and the battery and
wiring is good, then there IS a problem with the starter.
This is a very simple system.
I suspect that its a O-320 so the starter will not put metal in the oil
as it's only a bolt on type.

I would never suggest that you remove the four bolts that hold on the
starter and disconnect the fat wire going to the post and take it down
to your local automotive/tractor starter and generater rebuild shop.
It is not legal here in the states and i suspect that it is not legal up
there.
I saw a starter just like that on a old tractor once ;-)

"dave" > wrote in message
news:ps0ib.737328$Ho3.180431@sccrnsc03...
>

> If it isn't turning over like crazy in the summer and the battery and
> wiring is good, then there IS a problem with the starter.
> This is a very simple system.
> I suspect that its a O-320 so the starter will not put metal in the oil
> as it's only a bolt on type.

Thanks Dave. This sounds much better than the problem being a lack of a
geared starter. The engine is an O-320-E3D and it hasn't shown any signs of
metal during oil changes. The previous owner had the a/c for 3 years and had
the starter problem all along; he flew 196 hours with this issue, and I've
added another 65 hrs since May.

> I would never suggest that you remove the four bolts that hold on the
> starter and disconnect the fat wire going to the post and take it down
> to your local automotive/tractor starter and generater rebuild shop.
> It is not legal here in the states and i suspect that it is not legal up
> there.
> I saw a starter just like that on a old tractor once ;-)

I would never even considered such advice :-)) ... and yes, I'm no expert
but I suspect it is also illegal around here ... :-)

From what I've heard the starter hardware is Chrysler same as the
alternator, but I haven't had a chance to verify this.

Anyhoo, I'll check into the cost of overhauling the starter and post.

Thanks much.


Jose Vivanco
C-GPYH

Thanks Mike. From your experience and other comments on this thread it
seems; this is a common problem that doesn't get worse, does not create
irreparable damage and it can be fixed. At least it can be fixed so that the
engine doesn't stumble start in mid-summer. The previous owner was convinced
the solution was a geared starter, and he was probably right. Now, I'm
starting to get the impression the problem could also be fixed with an
overhaul of my existing starter.

As I mentioned on a previous post I'll research and post.

Cheers!

Jose Vivanco
C-GPYH


"Mike Spera" > wrote in message
...
> My 140 has required the initial "bump" you describe for the last ten
> years I owned it. Our positive braided battery strap has always been in
> marginal shape. I will probably replace it this fall. It is split at the
> battery post and does not offer the best connection.
>
> What is that hardened putty-like stuff that insulates it from the
> battery box? That looks like a really crude solution. Do they make some
> sort of (legal) rubber isolator as a replacement, or do I have to
> replace it with the same goop?
>
> By the way, I have had ours out in -13 and the oil temp is pretty low,
> even with the plate on. No battery boost was needed, even with the aging
> cable. With thermal underwear it was still too cool for my tastes. The
> heater does not keep the plane at any comfort level below 0F. Here in
> Illinois, +10-+15F is about the reasonable limit on a tiedown.
> Fortunately, daytime temps don't go lower than that very often.
>
> I see what the other respondent was saying about the hangar woes. Here,
> they plow in front of the hangars and leave a nice 10-15 inch bump of
> snow that turns to solid ice when the sun bounces off the hangars and
> partially melts it during the day and it solidifies at night.
>
> Mike
>
> Jose Vivanco wrote:
> > I live in Ottawa, Canada and this is my first winter as a PA-28-140
owner.
> > My airplane does have copper battery cables (cable ?) and an engine
heater
> > but the previous owner warned me; in really cold weather, below
(-10C/-23 F)
> > it won't start without a battery boost. The battery boost is in addition
to
> > plug-in the aircraft for about an hour before departure. The aircraft
> > doesn't have an engine cover AND it does not have a geared starter.
> >
> > Are there any other PA-28-140s with a similar problem?
> >
> > I will be getting an engine cover, but I don't think this alone will
> > eliminate the battery boost requirements. The battery is two years old.
> > Normal summer start always looks like the battery is dead, i.e. one
blade
> > goes by and the prop stops turning, ignition back to off, then crank
again
> > and it fires up immediately.
> >
> > My plan this winter is to get a trickle charger for the battery, blanket
> > battery warmer plus regular plug-in of the engine heater.
> >
> > Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Jose Vivanco
> >
> > C-GPYH.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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<><><><><><><><>
>

I have an E3D also. I noticed another fellow suggested field wiring open
circuits that cause this problem. Well, the problem has persisted
through 2 different starters (the second one a fresh overhaul when we
swapped out the engine). So, I tend to rule out the starter being the
problem.

Check your cable connections at the battery. They may be starting to
deteriorate.

Good Luck,
Mike
Jose Vivanco wrote:
> Thanks Mike. From your experience and other comments on this thread it
> seems; this is a common problem that doesn't get worse, does not create
> irreparable damage and it can be fixed. At least it can be fixed so that the
> engine doesn't stumble start in mid-summer. The previous owner was convinced
> the solution was a geared starter, and he was probably right. Now, I'm
> starting to get the impression the problem could also be fixed with an
> overhaul of my existing starter.
>
> As I mentioned on a previous post I'll research and post.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Jose Vivanco
> C-GPYH
>
>
> "Mike Spera" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>My 140 has required the initial "bump" you describe for the last ten
>>years I owned it. Our positive braided battery strap has always been in
>>marginal shape. I will probably replace it this fall. It is split at the
>>battery post and does not offer the best connection.
>>
>>What is that hardened putty-like stuff that insulates it from the
>>battery box? That looks like a really crude solution. Do they make some
>>sort of (legal) rubber isolator as a replacement, or do I have to
>>replace it with the same goop?
>>
>>By the way, I have had ours out in -13 and the oil temp is pretty low,
>>even with the plate on. No battery boost was needed, even with the aging
>>cable. With thermal underwear it was still too cool for my tastes. The
>>heater does not keep the plane at any comfort level below 0F. Here in
>>Illinois, +10-+15F is about the reasonable limit on a tiedown.
>>Fortunately, daytime temps don't go lower than that very often.
>>
>>I see what the other respondent was saying about the hangar woes. Here,
>>they plow in front of the hangars and leave a nice 10-15 inch bump of
>>snow that turns to solid ice when the sun bounces off the hangars and
>>partially melts it during the day and it solidifies at night.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>Jose Vivanco wrote:
>>
>>>I live in Ottawa, Canada and this is my first winter as a PA-28-140
>>
> owner.
>
>>>My airplane does have copper battery cables (cable ?) and an engine
>>
> heater
>
>>>but the previous owner warned me; in really cold weather, below
>>
> (-10C/-23 F)
>
>>>it won't start without a battery boost. The battery boost is in addition
>>
> to
>
>>>plug-in the aircraft for about an hour before departure. The aircraft
>>>doesn't have an engine cover AND it does not have a geared starter.
>>>
>>>Are there any other PA-28-140s with a similar problem?
>>>
>>>I will be getting an engine cover, but I don't think this alone will
>>>eliminate the battery boost requirements. The battery is two years old.
>>>Normal summer start always looks like the battery is dead, i.e. one
>>
> blade
>
>>>goes by and the prop stops turning, ignition back to off, then crank
>>
> again
>
>>>and it fires up immediately.
>>>
>>>My plan this winter is to get a trickle charger for the battery, blanket
>>>battery warmer plus regular plug-in of the engine heater.
>>>
>>>Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>>Jose Vivanco
>>>
>>>C-GPYH.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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>
> <><><><><><><><>
>
>
>


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"Jose Vivanco" > wrote:

> I live in Ottawa, Canada and this is my first winter as a PA-28-140 owner.
> My airplane does have copper battery cables (cable ?) and an engine heater
> but the previous owner warned me; in really cold weather, below (-10C/-23 F)

-10C is actually +14F. The conversion formula is:

F = 9/5 C + 32

or

C = 5/9(F - 32)

It's helpful to remember a few points along the scale to get a quick
reference rather than having to do math in your head:

-40C = -40F
-18C = 0F
0C = 32F
10C = 50F
20C = 68F
30C = 86F

Jim Rosinski
N3825Q

Another quick estimation is to double the Celsius number and add 30.
Gets you close with very little brainpower.
Mike



jim rosinski wrote:
> "Jose Vivanco" > wrote:
>
>
>>I live in Ottawa, Canada and this is my first winter as a PA-28-140 owner.
>>My airplane does have copper battery cables (cable ?) and an engine heater
>>but the previous owner warned me; in really cold weather, below (-10C/-23 F)
>
>
> -10C is actually +14F. The conversion formula is:
>
> F = 9/5 C + 32
>
> or
>
> C = 5/9(F - 32)
>
> It's helpful to remember a few points along the scale to get a quick
> reference rather than having to do math in your head:
>
> -40C = -40F
> -18C = 0F
> 0C = 32F
> 10C = 50F
> 20C = 68F
> 30C = 86F
>
> Jim Rosinski
> N3825Q


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On 11-Oct-2003, dave > wrote:

> If it isn't turning over like crazy in the summer and the battery and
> wiring is good, then there IS a problem with the starter.
> This is a very simple system.

I agree the symptoms more strongly suggest a problem with the starter (or
connections to the starter) than the battery or charging system. But it's
easy to verify by load testing the battery.

--
-Elliott Drucker

You need a battery heater in additon to your engine heater.. See:

http://www.tanair.com/index.html

You should probably buy/make an engine blanket too.


Mike
MU-2



"Jose Vivanco" > wrote in message
...
>
> I live in Ottawa, Canada and this is my first winter as a PA-28-140 owner.
> My airplane does have copper battery cables (cable ?) and an engine heater
> but the previous owner warned me; in really cold weather, below (-10C/-23
F)
> it won't start without a battery boost. The battery boost is in addition
to
> plug-in the aircraft for about an hour before departure. The aircraft
> doesn't have an engine cover AND it does not have a geared starter.
>
> Are there any other PA-28-140s with a similar problem?
>
> I will be getting an engine cover, but I don't think this alone will
> eliminate the battery boost requirements. The battery is two years old.
> Normal summer start always looks like the battery is dead, i.e. one blade
> goes by and the prop stops turning, ignition back to off, then crank again
> and it fires up immediately.
>
> My plan this winter is to get a trickle charger for the battery, blanket
> battery warmer plus regular plug-in of the engine heater.
>
> Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Jose Vivanco
>
> C-GPYH.
>
>
>
>
>

"Jose Vivanco" > writes:

> I will be getting an engine cover, but I don't think this alone will
> eliminate the battery boost requirements. The battery is two years
> old. Normal summer start always looks like the battery is dead,
> i.e. one blade goes by and the prop stops turning, ignition back to
> off, then crank again and it fires up immediately.

At -10 degC, my PA-28-161 will usually turn over and fire just fine
without preheat (also copper cables), and I'm not sure how old the
battery is. At first I had the heater plugged in for any subzero
temperatures, but now I just do it when it's significantly cold out.

From my relatively inexperienced point of view, I'd suggest having
everything checked -- battery, wiring, starter, primer lines, mags,
etc. -- given that we have similar planes and your summer start is
already suboptimal. It won't be any fun being stuck at a little
country airport in the winter with a plane that won't start.

By the way, my AME showed me a great trick for starting in general,
but one that's especially useful in the winter. Instead of opening
the throttle to get the engine to catch, keep the throttle almost
closed and pump the primer while cranking -- it seems to work much
better, and you don't end up surging the engine at 1200-1500 RPM (or
worse) when everything's still cold.


All the best,


David

C-FBJO at CYOW

Mike Spera > writes:

> By the way, I have had ours out in -13 and the oil temp is pretty low,
> even with the plate on. No battery boost was needed, even with the
> aging cable. With thermal underwear it was still too cool for my
> tastes. The heater does not keep the plane at any comfort level below
> 0F. Here in Illinois, +10-+15F is about the reasonable limit on a
> tiedown. Fortunately, daytime temps don't go lower than that very
> often.

It might be worth checking the heater box -- they can corrode pretty
badly when not used, and the valve might not be moving all the way
Mine has jammed up twice in the year I've owned the plane, but my AME
cleaned out the corrosion at the annual, and at his recommendation I
now slide the heater and defroster all the way open and closed again
on every preflight (use it or lose it).

When my heater valve is working, my plane can get too hot even with an
OAT of -30 degC and I have to reduce heat (that's with thermal
underwear but no coat). I also don't use the oil cooler plate because
the one that comes with my plane does not seem to fit -- the oil temps
stay low, but still within the zone.


All the best,


David

"Nils Rostedt" > writes:

> Exactly. And when jumping into the plane after this workout
> exercise, the body sweat promptly converts to ice on the windows ;(.

Try leaving the storm window open at first, until the defroster is
pumping out enough heat. That trick works to keep a car from frosting
or fogging up as well (just open the windows a bit).


All the best,


David

"David Megginson" wrote ..
> "Nils Rostedt" writes:
>
> > Exactly. And when jumping into the plane after this workout
> > exercise, the body sweat promptly converts to ice on the windows ;(.
>
> Try leaving the storm window open at first, until the defroster is
> pumping out enough heat. That trick works to keep a car from frosting
> or fogging up as well (just open the windows a bit).

Right, that's standard practice here in winter. The problem is, that the
defroster has very poor effect during the warm-up and slow taxi phase.
Sufficient warm air only starts to flow during the take-off run when full
power is applied.

At least this is the case in the two-seaters I've flown. Maybe the bigger
tin cans do better. Anyway I've found it's much more comfortable (and safe)
to go inside, or to my car, and quickly switch into a dry shirt before
boarding the cold airplane. Less frost on the canopy, and a much warmer
feeling until the plane's heater finally kicks in. Hey, every bushpilot has
a spare shirt anyway ;-)

/ Nils
Helsinki, Finland

"Nils Rostedt" > writes:

> Hey, every bushpilot has a spare shirt anyway ;-)

Bush pilots can afford spare shirts? You must be paying them too much
in Finland.


All the best,


David

In article <GFThb.738459$uu5.125046@sccrnsc04>, Jay Honeck wrote:
> Mike, I'd check to make sure the passenger compartment is relatively
> airtight. When we flew our Warrior at that temperature (I've not had the

Apparently the opposite can cause a problem as well. Somebody on
the Short-Wing Piper list recently was complaining about having sealed
up everything, and now it's cold in the winter. Apparently, if you
seal too much, once the cabin gets 'pressurized', the heater isn't moving
warm air into the cabin anymore.

But that's just what I hear. Alternately, you could move to Houston,
and then you'd never need your airplane heater again.

Tina Marie
--
http://www.tripacerdriver.com "...One of the main causes
of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way
to indicate successful termination of their C programs." (Robert Firth)

"David Megginson" > wrote in message
...

> At -10 degC, my PA-28-161 will usually turn over and fire just fine
> without preheat (also copper cables), and I'm not sure how old the
> battery is. At first I had the heater plugged in for any subzero
> temperatures, but now I just do it when it's significantly cold out.

During my renter days in Montreal the flight school was adamant about
plugging in the aircraft below 0 degC. Their take was, warm oil spreads
itself around faster than colder oil and this would minimize start-up wear
and tear.

> From my relatively inexperienced point of view, I'd suggest having
> everything checked -- battery, wiring, starter, primer lines, mags,
> etc. -- given that we have similar planes and your summer start is
> already suboptimal. It won't be any fun being stuck at a little
> country airport in the winter with a plane that won't start.

I will be talking to the mechanic sometime this week and ask him to work his
way forward from the battery to the starter. Hopefully it will be an
el-cheapo fix, like cleaning contact surfaces. I'll post the results.

> By the way, my AME showed me a great trick for starting in general,
> but one that's especially useful in the winter. Instead of opening
> the throttle to get the engine to catch, keep the throttle almost
> closed and pump the primer while cranking -- it seems to work much
> better, and you don't end up surging the engine at 1200-1500 RPM (or
> worse) when everything's still cold.

My instructor in Montreal used to do this, I just need to remember to do it
nex time.

Cheers!

Jose Vivanco

C-GPYH @ CYRO

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:28:09 -0400, "Jose Vivanco"
> wrote:

>During my renter days in Montreal the flight school was adamant about
>plugging in the aircraft below 0 degC. Their take was, warm oil spreads
>itself around faster than colder oil and this would minimize start-up wear
>and tear.

That also reduces the size difference between the various engine parts.

Although Lycoming recommends preheat for temps below 20°F (-7°C), I find
that my Lycoming IO360A1A starts much more briskly and easily if I preheat
below about 35°F.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

> Apparently the opposite can cause a problem as well. Somebody on
> the Short-Wing Piper list recently was complaining about having sealed
> up everything, and now it's cold in the winter. Apparently, if you
> seal too much, once the cabin gets 'pressurized', the heater isn't moving
> warm air into the cabin anymore.

Well, I sealed up every air leak I could find in my old Warrior, and only
made it warmer -- but I suppose you could reach a point of being TOO sealed.

All I know is I've sure never seen a plane that was too tightly sealed.
Most planes I've ridden in are at least 20 years old, and leak air like
sieves.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:

> All I know is I've sure never seen a plane that was too tightly sealed.
> Most planes I've ridden in are at least 20 years old, and leak air like
> sieves.

Hey let's not go giving sieves bad names. At least they stop *something*. :-)

Russell Kent

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:qgijb.777606$YN5.761167@sccrnsc01...
> All I know is I've sure never seen a plane that was too tightly sealed.
> Most planes I've ridden in are at least 20 years old, and leak air like
> sieves.

Mine doesn't help much by having a 1.5" gap between the back
of the canopy and the fuselage. :-) The heater's quite good though,
at least for temperatures I've flown in.

Paul